Podcast Episode: Pillars of Competitive Advantage: Beverage Guru Wields Brand Building Powers in Cannabis

Chris Walsh
Welcome, everyone to seat to CEO the podcast about making your way in the cannabis business. I’m your host, Chris Walsh, and I’m also the CEO of MJBiz. Appreciate you joining us for this episode.

We’ve got a good one on tap. Today, I’m going to speak with a heavyweight in the industry — Joe Bayern.

Joe’s career has taken several significant twists over the years and its involves some big corporate names. After a stint at Deloitte, he went to Snapple and worked his way up to Chief Strategy Officer before holding a similar position at Cadbury Schweppes. He then became a venture capitalist for a bit, he started a consulting agency. He went to work for a firm in the publishing industry. And then he got back into the beverage sector with Voss water in 2019. His path took another turn as he set his sights on cannabis.

Today, he’s the CEO of Massachusetts-based Curaleaf, one of the largest most prominent cannabis companies in the world.

In this episode, I speak to Joe about how the allure of helping shape a new industry convinced him to enter cannabis, how he restructured and set a strategic vision for Curaleaf, and how he continues to foster an entrepreneurial spirit across the company that has moved well beyond the startup stage. He’ll also talk about the company’s move into Europe and how that fits in with his vision.

We’ll get to all this coming up after a word from MJBiz.

There are about 62% more cannabis businesses in the US now than in 2020. With more than 118,000 legal businesses now operating, you need an edge. Now in its 10th edition, the MJ biz factbook delivers in depth data on the cannabis industry including financial forecasts and state by state reports detailing investment trends, regulations, updates, tax rates and opportunities. The MJ biz factbook is the essential tool for business leaders and investors in every sector of the cannabis industry. For a limited time, use the code 150 F F for $15 off your order, beat the competition and get your insights at MJBizDaily.com.

Chris Walsh
And welcome back to Seed to CEO. I’d like to welcome Joe Bayer, the CEO of Curaleaf to the show. Joe, thanks for joining us.

Joe Bayern
My pleasure, Chris.

Chris Walsh
I’m excited to talk to you about what you’ve done in your role to make Curaleaf a powerhouse in the cannabis industry. Why don’t you tell us what the company’s operations encompass today? You’re moving quick. You know, there’s been a lot of M&A activity, a lot of new markets. So it’s hard to keep up with exactly where you are. But can you tell us again, what are your operations encompass across this country and others?

Joe Bayern
Sure. Today, Curaleaf is the largest cannabis company in the world. We operate in 23 states across the US and now eight different countries in Europe. So we’re looking at expanding into, you know, into different markets. We want to build the first truly national brands and truly national cannabis company in the in the US. And in order to do that we need to have a national footprint. So we continue to look at expanding both organically and in organically into new markets. But today we operate in 23 different states and eight countries across Europe.

Chris Walsh
And we’re going to talk a lot about how you’ve done that. I want to back up a little bit. You’ve had a rich career history working for some very well known brands and companies including Snapple and Cadbury Schweppes and also helping revive some of those businesses. I’d like you to give us an idea of what led you into the cannabis industry.

But first, I want to preface this with a quote from you that I came across from 2016 I believe it was an Alumni Profile by your college publication where you were talking about your career before cannabis and also offering advice to students and you said, “I didn’t plan to do any of the things I did throughout my career. I just came across great opportunities and took them.”

I think that’s a great lesson. Don’t be afraid to take chances. So with that as the background I’m sure that played into the cannabis side as well. Give us kind of the 30,000 foot view of your career up until the point you decided to go into cannabis.

Joe Bayern
Yeah, that’s a great intro. I think you know, one of my favorite sayings is my career is a little bit like the John Lennon song — life is what happens when you’re busy making plans. My career has just been life; I’ve been lucky enough to be involved with a lot of really compelling and interesting opportunities. As you said I’ve worked with some great brands including Snapple and Dr. Pepper and Cadbury and most recently Voss water. And if I, you know, look back over my career,  I’ve taken a lot of twists and turns and I’ve done that because I’ve always gravitated towards, you know, big opportunities. For me, it’s about challenges. I’m a pretty competitive person. So I like new challenges. I like solving problems. And when I looked at the cannabis industry, you know, I’ve worked with great brands and great companies, but you know, I’ve never really had the opportunity where we’re working with great brands and great companies but also creating an entire industry, and I think that’s what motivated me to come into the cannabis industry.

It’s how do we actually create an industry that could be at the embryonic stages of $100 billion plus industry over the next 10 to 20 years. And it was pretty hard to turn away from that opportunity when you look at the other things I’ve done. Yeah, absolutely.

Chris Walsh
And, you know, it’s always part of anyone’s story about how they got into cannabis. We don’t, you know, in a typical industry, that’s not as important like, how did you get into high tech or whatever. In cannabis, though, it’s fascinating because people got in at different points. And there were different key discoveries or epiphanies that they had to get into this crazy industry, which is still federally illegal. So why don’t you walk us through when cannabis kind of got on your radar from a business standpoint? And how that all evolved and what you were doing at the time? I believe you were with Voss at the time.

Joe Bayern
I was with Voss Water. And as you said, there are usually some learnings or epiphanies that accompany big moves like this. And this is similar for me, I you know, I was working with Voss Water, we’re looking at product extensions for our company, and CBD happened to be a big topic at the time.

And I came in and started doing some work around CBD and beverages and other types of consumables. And the more I learned, the more intrigued I became around the cannabis industry. Like most people, I didn’t even know that CBD was cannabis and cannabis was marijuana and the connection between the two. So as I learned more about it, I became intrigued and started understanding the benefits of cannabis, both CBD with you know, with THC, and without, and started, as I spoke to people, started hearing some incredibly compelling stories about how cannabis has literally changed their lives. I continue to hear those stories every day.

So I got very interested in not only embarking on a new industry, but helping to remove the stigma associated with this industry. And then when I started looking at, you know, where we thought brands would fit into perspective into the profile, and where value creation could happen in the industry, you know, most people were focused on, you know, how many square feet of cultivation you had, you know, that was the barometer for how successful you’ll be. And then it was how many retail stores and I, you know, had a completely different point of view. Although those things were very important in the early days, creating brands that people love, and trust and products that meet the needs of our consumers better than anybody else, are going to be the ultimate things that create value in this industry. And I felt I had a unique perspective to share. So that was the moment that I decided to join the industry.

Chris Walsh
When were you doing the research with Voss that led you down this path – about 2018?

Joe Bayern
18 is when I started the exploration.

Chris, the other thing that I think is really important was personal experience. My wife has chronic pain from Lyme disease; we’ve tried everything from opioids to, you know, prescriptive drugs. And once I started learning about cannabis, she started using cannabis for the first time, and it helped change her life.  It helps manage her pain, and she is now on a different health and wellness regimen. So I have first hand experience of what cannabis can do. And I’ve seen the dichotomy between you know, what the perception in the marketplace is, and the reality of people who use this as a very, very regulated, very prescriptive way of managing their health and wellness. The two, the two perspectives couldn’t be further apart and helping to close that gap is a personal mission of mine.

Chris Walsh
We often hear from people enter the industry that they have that personal connection with themselves, someone in their family, their friends, sounds like you have that as well. You know, you were you were established, you worked for big brands, who were advice and and this is 2018. There weren’t many of your peers with that type of background that were entering cannabis. It’s more common today. But I remember 17 And 18 very well. And getting someone to join a cannabis company with your background was very difficult because of that stigma primarily, which still exists today in some respects, but as much less than it used to be. Did you consider any of that? And would you potentially be jeopardizing what you had built for your career up to that point?

Joe Bayern
Sure. Of course, that came into my consideration. I think it goes into anybody’s decision set as as they make these decisions. They have to consider that. But I just felt the benefit was, you know, far outweighing the detriments. I’ll have to tell you a personal anecdote. The hardest part of the decision was going to my mother who was proud of everything I’ve done in my career and have having to tell her that I’m no longer with Voss water. I’m in the cannabis industry. And I think that’s something that many people face. It just goes to show the stigma associated with cannabis industry and to heart credit, you know, a week later I got about 30 emails and news articles about all the benefits of cannabis and why it’s such a great choice.  As long as you have the right perspective and supportive infrastructure, whether it’s your family, your mentors, your friends, your professional community, it should be an easy decision for most people.

Chris Walsh
Yeah. And I went through that personally in 2011, when we started MJBiz, and my aunt is a Catholic nun. And my Dad was a longtime White House correspondent, he worked for US News and World Report. So you know, serious journalism. And you know, my mom had a successful career as well. And I remember having to go to that, to say, “Guess what, I’m not working at mainstream, metro newspapers anymore. You know, I’ve signed on to help launch this publication aimed at the cannabis industry. That was a difficult thing for me to envision as well telling my family, and they actually all embraced it, surprisingly, and said, good for you. And at that time, it was only medical. So it was a little easier to message, because recreational wasn’t around yet. So it seemed like a healthcare job. So I totally understand that dynamic for you. And so what were your first steps you signed on with Indus,

Joe Bayern
I came across a company based in California, and they were about to try to go public on the Canadian stock exchange, and had a great discussion with the founder, Rob weekly, and he explained that they really needed somebody with my type of background to help them move the business from the entrepreneurial phase into, you know, a more regulated, obviously, and public company.

I was happy to join, and I thought it was great education. As I said, I’ve worked in a couple of different environments, I think it was really helpful for me to take the first step into the, you know, when I consider the mature markets, the West Coast markets, and then see the perspective on the East Coast markets with Curaleaf.

It was a very interesting perspective, because there is a big gap, but they’re not as dissimilar as people think. And I think we recognize that people are using cannabis for very specific reasons, different usage occasions. And those usage, occasions aren’t that different between adult use and medical use, then we can help again, bridge the gap between those two cultures. Obviously, there is a cannabis culture out there. But you know, we’ve done we’ve done a lot of consumer research, and most of the research we do the number one, two, and three, use education for cannabis, either on the adult use side or on the medical use side are the same. It’s about managing anxiety, it’s helping to get sleep, it’s managing depression. So even the adult use markets, we believe, you know, are using cannabis for this for the same reason. They’ve just been self medicating for a number of years. And you know, now it’s time to remove that stigma of the fact that, you know, because you use cannabis, you’re, you know, some specific type of person, as opposed to just somebody who’s trying to manage every day. Health and wellness needs are in anxiety, depression, sleep, creativity, and sometimes just to relax. So the more we educate people around that, and humanize the experience, I think the more successful the industry will be.

Chris Walsh
Well, I hope we have time to come back a little bit later and talk about how you approach that to ease that stigma and change the narrative. So one of the things a lot of people come to the industry traditionally and and started their own companies. But then we’re seeing this new wave, as I mentioned earlier, people were very successful in the mainstream, and then are joining at a top level at executive level existing companies. But that can be very tricky, because there are some good companies out there and good operators and good businesses. And you know, especially in 1718, there were a lot of, I guess, some shady operators and businesses, there were some you wouldn’t want to join because they were just really messy in general, and not well run. And so how did you decide to join in this? What steps did you take to do your due diligence? And what kind of clinched this out of all the companies out there that you could potentially join?

Joe Bayern
Yeah, it’s a good question. And obviously, there’s a lot of due diligence that went into it. I think I met with the team. And I was really impressed with the management team that Rob had already organized. We had people from Pepsi, we had people who are CEOs of distribution companies. So they were already on the right path. But when I came in to help coordinate the effort, and obviously bring another level of professionalism to the group, but I was already very impressed with a number of people had already made the decision to join. And then when it came to purely, you know, it was a relatively easy decision for me, because both Boris and Joe not only had built a great platform to be able to leverage but they recognize that the skill set needed to run a multi billion dollar multinational company was a different skill set. And that was my background. And when I came on board, it was an easy transition. Because we were very aligned on how we’re going to create value in the industry. We had a long term vision of where that value would be created. And we had the resources to be able to manage that. So one of the things that is a challenge, even today is being able to balance the need to stay entrepreneurial and flexible and adaptable in the marketplace, but also have this long term strategic division. And I think that’s one of the biggest challenges that I find in the industry is being able to balance that equation. And I have to remind our staff every day that yes, we are, you know, over a billion dollars, and we’re in 23 states and operating in eight countries, but we’re still a startup. And we’re startup in a startup industry. So we have to remain entrepreneurial, we have to be adaptive to the marketplace. And we have to move quickly. And that’s an interesting challenge for I think any CEO within the industry.

Chris Walsh
Yes, that was a big takeaway from your time at Indus, that also is still true and relevant today, I completely agree with you. Can you give us a real world example or two, then of whether was the Indus or now with purely how you’ve been able to manage that and bake that into the company’s DNA, because it is a very, very tricky balance to continuously do, and not kind of rest on your laurels or, you know, to move away from that startup flexible, entrepreneurial approach that, as you mentioned, is desperately needed in this industry for long term success. You have to keep that are there certain processes you put in place or certain positions? How do you do that beyond just just tell your team to keep that in mind?

Joe Bayern
Yeah, I think it I think it starts with just again, having a strategic vision that you want to stay true to, but understanding that you may not be able to take a straight line to get there, and you can’t, you know, necessarily apply that vision. Today, in every one of the markets that we operate, obviously, you know, with 23 different markets we have, it’s almost like running 23 different countries, because each one has its own set of rules and regulations and product formats and advertising standards. So but we need to have, you know, this North Star. And so, you know, we’re very focused on what we call the four pillars of competitive advantage, how we think we’re going to separate ourselves from the rest of the market. And that’s starting with, you know, creating the best products in the marketplace. And we want to use science to help drive product differentiation. So we spend more than anybody else in research and development, trying to really understand the impact of cannabis and the different combination of cannabinoids and terpenes, and what the impact is on the consumer. And then, you know, the second thing we do is we’re building out what we think is the largest distribution platform in the cannabis industry, we have 126 of our own retail locations, but we call on over 2200 independent dispensaries, as well. So once we create great products, we want to have a route to market for those products. And we want to have the broadest distribution platform. Of course, our thesis is that long term value will be created by companies that create brands that people love and trust and, and products that meet our needs, the needs of our consumers. And in order to do that, we need great marketing and brand building. So our third pillar is we want to build a national brand. On the health and wellness side, that secure leaf on the lifestyle side that’s select for now, but we’re always looking at the expansion of our portfolio. And, and then the fourth pillar is, of course, we have to build a group of motivated and professional people that that are entrepreneurial. So we have those pillars, the challenge is implementing those pillars at different rates at different stages of development across all of our markets. And in some cases like the northeast, you know, we have very few brands that we operate in, we have 234 brands in our portfolio. But on the West Coast, we might be distributing 12 Different brands through our stores. And we realize you can’t have a one size fits all model today, we have to be adaptable. And we have to think about what brands are relevant in Arizona versus New Jersey. And we have to think about assortment and the type of consumers we’re managing. But eventually, it all ties back to you know, our ultimate vision of becoming the world’s leading cannabis company by creating products that people love and brands that people trust.

Chris Walsh
When you’re talking about this balance of being flexible and nimble and innovative with you know, also you’re a big company now. And you’ve got to balance this correctly going forward. Do you need that entrepreneurial spirit as part of your hiring? How do you identify that with people that you’re hiring? I mean, if they didn’t start their their own companies, when

Joe Bayern
I started Curaleaf, I think we had around 2000 employees, and we’re up to 5500 employees today. So obviously, we’ve been hiring a lot of growth over the last couple of years and trying to remain true to that entrepreneurial spirit is a key part of what we do. I think we you know, we are a mission based company. So we do look for people who believe in our mission, which is to help improve lives every day through the association of cannabis. We look for people who are obviously eager and ambitious. And I’ve proven that they could work in an entrepreneurial environment. But just as importantly, on the other side of the ledger, we’re now trying to find people who do have established company experience and could bring something to the table. And I think you’ve highlighted one of the key challenges in our industry is how do we find the balance of those people? What we’ve found it’s relatively easy to find people who want to be in the cannabis industry because they like cannabis. It’s a little bit harder to find people want to be in cannabis and have the ability to work in an entrepreneur. environment and be successful because it takes a certain amount of independence to be able to do that.

Chris Walsh
And the acceptance of change that you’ve come from only big companies, you’re we’ve learned that you’re likely going to struggle, at least initially, if not the entire time or in the industry, because even if you’re a billions of dollars in revenue, or 10, or 15 years old, in this industry, you’re still a startup.

Joe Bayern
Yeah, and as we said, we pivot a lot, you know, we need to pivot a lot. As you said, getting people from big companies who are not used to that pace, or the ability to remain flexible, and pivot makes it difficult for them to be successful. We’re looking for those people with that experience. So that’s the needle in the haystack that we’re looking for, are the people who are adaptable, and they have the experience, because we do need to bring process we do need to bring different thought processes and better thought processes into the industry. So finding the people that have a combination of those things, I think is where we excel. And we spend a lot of time trying to find those people, you know, that can adapt, but also bring great thought process. Because we’re scaling up and it’s not about me, or Boris or Joe, writing out a game plan in a boardroom. It’s about reacting to what’s happening every day in the marketplace. But doing that with the right thought process, the right vision, and making sure they understand where the endpoint is. So we’re not going off in 100 different directions.

Chris Walsh
But let me ask you as an executive, how did you do this successfully yourself? Because you came from big companies for many years, and you’ve embraced the pivots and the flexibility. What has grounded you to that; what has helped you stay true to that yourself?

Joe Bayern
Part of the success was that I had a lot of different experiences throughout my career. And I didn’t come up through one specific function doing the same job for 20 years, you know, I bounced around a lot. And that gave me a different experience based on most people. I think the other thing that helped me is I started my career in consulting. So I got to see a lot of different business models. And you know, that that I think helped create a base for my career that was not only helpful in consumer products, but certainly prepared me for the world of cannabis. And I think the last thing is, I’ve always considered myself an entrepreneur, in a corporate world, sometimes I fit in and sometimes I didn’t fit in. And we want those types of people who who fit in, but don’t always fit it because you have to push boundaries, you have to challenge the status quo. And candidly, as we said, you have to adapt. And when we find those people, those are the ones I think you’d be really successful in helping us create this industry.

Chris Walsh
So aside from having that entrepreneurial spirit yourself, what else from your days in the past at some of these other companies? What are some of the biggest skill sets or experience that you’ve brought with you that have been helpful in cannabis?

Joe Bayern
I’ve been involved in a lot of different projects and experiences. And I’ve crossed over from accounting operations to it to marketing to sales to strategy, you know, I was lucky enough to have a great base of experience that I can apply to cannabis, because you need a little bit of all of that, you know, on a daily basis, I had, I was very fortunate in my career that I found people who who were able to have confidence in me and given me the opportunity to expand in different areas. That’s not a typical career path. Candidly, it’s not and I was just lucky enough to find the right people who believed in me and supported me.

Chris Walsh
Over time, you did a little bit of everything, right?  What were some of the first moves that you made when you came into Curaleaf that contributed to the vision fully understood the business? What were some of those first moves?

Joe Bayern
When I came in, we we’re in the middle of rolling up a platform. And I think we all recognize that if we’re going to be successful if we’re really going to be the industry leader in the world leader, that we have to run his company as one consolidated company, purely one vision, one strategy rather than a portfolio of assets that we bought over the last couple of years. And I think weaving that together and understanding, you know, what is the role of brands? What is the role of cultivation? What is the role of our retail was all part of setting out our strategic framework. And then I think, when I do relatively well, it’s not just about having a vision, it’s converting that vision into action. It’s asking those next set of questions to be able to be tangible enough to execute against and that’s where I fit into the equation is what I call converting vision into action.

Chris Walsh
And what were some of the bigger moves you made to do that was it you helping identify, you know, some key markets that you should be in or have a bigger presence in or, or maybe not focus on as much was it reorganizing part of the company?

Joe Bayern
all of the above we reorganized the minute we came in, we were When I think when I came in, we had 15 different presidents reporting to me, each one running their own market, I had to work on how do we create a team? And so I spent almost my whole first year thinking about, you know, what are our strategic priorities? You know, where do we have to focus which markets are core markets and secondary market? The other thing that, you know, I think I brought to the company is a little bit of a, you know, the planning mentality, I have a very simple mantra, plan the work and work the plan, it’s, we have to plan ahead, because we’re in an agricultural business. The first exercise was, can we hit our revenue targets, and bringing another perspective to the approach of developing that was all part of moving from, you know, this entrepreneurial startup to, you know, something that looks more like a traditional CPG environment.

Chris Walsh
But let’s stay on this for a minute. Because I’ve often said, it wasn’t until recently for us at MJBiz, but for a lot of companies, that you could plan more than really a year out. And if I’m being honest, it’s six months, you know, we spent many years really not knowing what was around the corner, because things would change. So quickly, you could spend a ton of time coming up with some strategic plan. And then you could have to rip it up in six months, because there were new markets or others that were struggling because of regulatory changes, all the forces at play in this industry that people don’t expect coming into it made it very difficult to long term plan. And I think that has changed in the last couple years to some degree. But it’s still not not as easy to do, as you can in other industries where you have some more certainty or insight into where the markets going. So how have you handled that task of planning out beyond six months, you know, maybe a year or two and what you’re trying to do with the uncertainty, again, of what markets are going to legalize, and what what might happen, what developments might change or shift your specific plans,

Joe Bayern
I think that is the most important thing that we manage on a daily basis, and we call it resource allocation is how do we allocate our resources against the next three months, six months, 12 months, but we need to have that north star, we need to have those building blocks those those four pillars of advantage in order to guide that because we need to ensure that even though the phasing might change, and it’s not a linear path to get there, we need to know we’re gonna get there and we need to continue to invest in those things, we are going to separate ourselves from the rest of the marketplace. So it’s not going to be a linear path, you have growth spurts, then you have plateaus, and you have growth spurts with different catalysts that help propel the industry forward. But we need to make sure that where we are aligned on where we’re going long term that’s going to be the hallmark of successful companies is the companies that are able to have a strategic view, have an idea of where they separate themselves in the marketplace, but are also able to pivot quickly, and make up the difference when needed to keep the business on track.

Chris Walsh
Sounds like what you’re saying is you’ve got to have the foundation set for your business and that North Star, and then that then gives you the ability to be flexible. If the specifics that fall under that don’t play out as expected,

Joe Bayern
really having at least your core understanding of, of what it takes to be successful in each market is a fundamental part of that we are the largest distribution cannabis distribution company in the world. Whether we work with two brands, three brands, or six brands, we have an unparalleled capability to get those products into the hands of consumers, we’re going to be successful. So we continue to build that out, we’re investing more than anybody else in building out the distribution platform and long term, that’s going to be a very strategic asset for us, you know, we recognize that may not be paying 100% of the dividends it needs today, but long term, that’s what’s gonna separate us from the marketplace.

Chris Walsh
When you talk about winning formulas, and it’s different different for each market. Can you give us just a quick snapshot of what you found? Is a winning formula in one market and how that might be different from another specific market?

Joe Bayern
The only thing I’d say is, you know, when I came in, I started looking at what is the strategy for Florida? And what is the strategy for New York? And what is the strategy for Arizona? What is the strategy for California? We’ve quickly come to the conclusion, it’s the same strategy. They’re just at different phases of development.

So that’s when I say, you know, we understand what the winning model is, we just have to adapt where we are in the development curve of each of that model in each of our states. So we have to have the right products, we have to have the right supply chain for those products. We need to have a distribution platform and a route to market for those products and we need to be able to brand, the pace at which we do that differs the way we do that differs by market, but that’s our formula. And that’s going to, I think, already starting to show that by staying true to that A formula in places like Florida, where we’ve doubled our share over the last 12 months by just sticking to the script, is what’s going to happen in all the markets, it’s just, it’s not going to happen at the same pace consistently. And so making sure as, as an example, we have the right supply chain for our products, when we come out with flour, we need to have high end indoor flour. If we’re working with formulator products, we have to have differentiated science, and then we have to find a way to get lower cost biomass to be able to feed the supply chain. So we’re not using resource intensive, high end indoor grows to supply, you know, fresh frozen, and, and biomass for formulated products, because they don’t need that as an input. So what is the right supply chain for that product? When we look at beverages? How do we create, you know, another platform of beverages and what would be the supply chain for that product? So it’s, it’s understanding how we match those things up in the right combination to drive not only capacity, drive, consistency, drive quality, but also do it at the right cost?

Chris Walsh
Are there any markets that you’re not in yet in the US that you don’t think you have the winning formula for now, or it’s not evolved enough whether it’s super strict regulations, or, or whatever it may be, are there some that are kind of off the table right now, for you?

Joe Bayern
Washington State for now, we just don’t think it’s the right level of development. We’d like to be in some markets that we’re not in, for instance, you know, we’d like to be in Virginia. So we’re going to be looking for ways to get into markets like Virginia. And again, that will, you know, that will continue to evolve over time. But, you know, we believe that we’ve got an unparalleled platform, we believe we have the broadest distribution, it’s not always easy to manage that platform, because we get criticized or compared for, as an example, our margins compared to some of our peer group that have been focused on one state or a small group of states, which is a very successful model for them. But we believe long term, we want to be a Nash, you know, we’re going to be national, and we need to have presence. So we need to be able to show that we could win in the most important markets like California, which is a very unattractive market today. But it’s going to be the largest market in the world. And we need to be at Find a way to win in that marketplace.

Chris Walsh
What led to the decision to get into Europe? And when did when did purely start going in that direction?

Joe Bayern
We bought a company called E Mac in April of 21. I think this was always on on the radar screen, you know, the vision was to be the world’s leading cannabis company, not the US leading cannabis company. So there was always an expectation that as cannabis developed as a market in different geographies that we want to take the same knowledge that we have here in the US and apply it across other other markets. So always part of long term vision, it was just question of when we got in, we were lucky enough to find a company called EMAC, which had a platform. And in Europe, it takes quite a while to develop that platform, it’s not as easy as just buying a license, you have to register products and go through a relatively lengthy process of getting products certified in each of these different markets. So we think it’s a it’s a great platform and a springboard to work off of. And we’re very excited that, you know, we think it’s gonna accelerate even faster than potentially, we initially anticipated with the onset of adult use in Germany, which was, which was a great development for us, which is happening, we believe in 2024. I think what gets us most excited about Europe is, again, we believe that the consumers are, are the same in Europe as they are in the US. And we’ve got a lot of experience working with consumers in the US from product development standpoint, from an education standpoint, from a marketing standpoint, that we’re going to be able to leverage into the European market. And we think we’re going to be lightyears ahead of people in Europe when we take our products in our expertise, and translate those into the European market. So we’re in the process of doing that. Now. We’re also excited about the fact that, you know, they’re slightly more clinical than we are. And because it’s legal in these countries, they’ve had the ability to do some clinical research that we’re now taking and applying towards our product development strategies in the US. So we think it’s a great symbiotic relationship. And we’re going to be able to leverage the skill sets of both teams. And, you know, I think we’re going to be in a great position to capitalize on what I think is going to be tremendously accelerated growth in Europe over the next three to five years.

Chris Walsh
Is there anything you are personally taking away from the experience that Canadian companies had when they were aggressively expanding into Europe and South America? And that didn’t go well, for a lot of them? Is there a takeaway from what we saw up there or are lessons to be learned?

Joe Bayern
We’re always circling back to is resource allocation. We realize that resources are precious and limited. And we have to make sure we’re balancing the deployment of those resources against what we call the you know, The three tier horizon, where do we invest for the next three to six months? You know, where do we invest? You know, from the six to 24 month cycle? And then, and then beyond that, I think, you know, as long as we have a disciplined approach to how we allocate those resources and manage the return on those resources, we’re going to be successful. were, you know, very optimistic about in Europe, as we already have a lot of experience with consumers in the US, which wasn’t necessarily true in Canada, those Canadian companies, probably overbuilt a little bit didn’t really have the experience of growing reasonable and responsible businesses in their whole market before they were venturing into new markets. So taking that operational approach to it rather than just a financial approach or financial engineering approach is, I think, going to be a critical aspect of why we’re going to be successful.

Chris Walsh
Well, we saw the Canadian companies go basically overseas, and most of us companies have not, but now you’ve got curaleaf and some others, the US companies are now setting their sights abroad, which is will be interesting to see how that plays out as we try and create more of a global industry. To close I have one last question for you. But first, a word from MJ biz daily.

Unknown Speaker
There are about 62% More cannabis businesses in the US now than in 2020. With more than 118,000 legal businesses now operating, you need an edge. Now in its 10th edition, the MJ biz factbook delivers in depth data on the cannabis industry, including financial forecasts and state by state reports detailing investment trends, regulations, updates, tax rates and opportunities. The MJ biz factbook is the essential tool for business leaders and investors in every sector of the cannabis industry. For a limited time, use the code 150 FF for $15 off your order, beat the competition and get your insights at MJ biz daily.com.

Chris Walsh
Okay, last question. We touched on this. And it may be similar to what we already talked about. But looking over your experience in cannabis, what was your biggest challenge or blunder? And how did you overcome it?

Joe Bayern
One of the things that we remind ourselves is that we’re learning something new every day, one of my slogans is leave your ego at the door, because no matter what you’ve done before, none of us has done anything like this before. So we have to really just work together as a team to figure out what’s going to be successful in our industry, apply what we can but then learn every day and apply that learning. One of those learnings for me, for sure, was under estimating the pace of change in this industry. It’s impossible to explain to people until you’ve been in the industry, how quickly you need to move and how quickly you have to adapt if you’re going to be successful. For a lot of the reasons we talked about before. I think on the challenge side, one of the things that I may have underestimated is the ability to create relevance to an existing marketplace, while also braiding relevance to what we believe is the future of the growth in the industry or new consumers coming into the category. So how do you balance the equation of creating brands and products that meet the needs of today’s consumers, while you’re also positioning those brands, for consumers who are a week old, kind of curious or haven’t even explored the cannabis industry yet, because that’s what’s going to help us get from, you know, a $25 billion industry to $100 billion industry as we get consumers switching out of alcohol, as we get consumers switching out of prescriptive drugs, pharmaceuticals, and we get people to adopt cannabis as part of their everyday health and wellness regimen. And so being able to balance that equation is challenging, because it’s a different set of consumers with different beliefs behind the usage of of cannabis. And we need to find the thing that strikes the chord between those two groups. One way we’re doing that at curaleaf is through a campaign we call it cannabis, which is really talking about how people use cannabis as part of their natural lifestyle as part of the health and wellness regimen, and really unionizing the story of people coming into the cannabis industry to help change their lives. And as I said, at the beginning of the broadcast, I have personal experience with the impact cannabis could have on people’s lives. But as I hear more and more of the stories, compelling stories and moving stories about people who have been on the verge, literally on the verge of suicide, but have found alternatives through cannabis to help balance their lifestyle. It just motivates me every day to get up and help tell that story. And we’re doing that through a program called icanvas, which the people brave enough to share their stories are doing that both within treeleaf and online. So I would advocate that anybody who’s willing to go out and take a stand and share their experience and help show that the people using cannabis are your neighbors, your aunts, your uncles, even your children that they should do that because we need everybody to buy into this if we’re going to change the stigma that’s associated in this industry.

Chris Walsh
Great stuff and we Are we we’re all changing that stigma. And it’s amazing how quickly it has changed over the past decade. still a ways to go. Thank you for being on and for your efforts in that regard. I appreciate it and look forward to seeing where you guys go next.

Joe Bayern
Thank you. My pleasure.

Chris Walsh
And that concludes my interview with Joe Bayern. In next week’s episode, I’ll speak with encore room Taw, the co founder and CEO of the vertically integrated multi state Cannabis Company C three industries will talk about how he turned C three into a force in Michigan and then took the company into new states, including Massachusetts, where he is partnering with a social equity licensed winner in Boston. Hope you’ll tune in